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Romulus
Dec 23, 2008 20:48:41 GMT -5
Post by evolution on Dec 23, 2008 20:48:41 GMT -5
Romulus
Who is he, Where did he come from, and what does he want with Wolverine?
In Wolverine (series 3) #50, he made his first appearance, he was the black lupin, standing in the shadow watching the fight. Of course the black lupin won.
But who is he and what's his story?
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Romulus
Dec 23, 2008 21:26:03 GMT -5
Post by CongoJack on Dec 23, 2008 21:26:03 GMT -5
I had a theory from a while back that was if there was a Romulus, ergo there must be a Remus. My theory was that Wolverine himself was Remus, and Romulus was John Howlett from the ORIGIN story.
Someone mentioned that this couldn't be right because Romulus was active years and years before Logan was born. There's always the possibilty that this was simply just part of Logan's dream sequence though.
Other possibilties I've considered of who Romulus could be: Apocalypse, Dog Logan, or someone new.
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Romulus
Dec 31, 2008 11:09:04 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Dec 31, 2008 11:09:04 GMT -5
Little solid information has been released about Romulus, but I think I remember Way describing him in an interview as being ancient, possibly immortal, and similar in some ways to Apocalypse. He seems to be the oldest living example of the sub-species of mutants that includes Wolverine, Daken, Sabretooth, and Wild Child. Feral and Thornn were supposedly also part of the sub-species before they were depowered, as was Sasquatch - who isn't even a mutant! Now I can understand Feral and Thornn, but Sasquatch? It makes no sense to include him on that list while ignoring the obvious, original, animalistic mutant - Beast! In fact I suspect that when Romulus' true appearance is revealed he'll look like an oversized version of Dark Beast.
And I agree that for there to be a "Romulus" it makes sense that there's a "Remus." But since Romulus killed Remus I think that the use of the name here simply means that our "Romulus" is the victorious "brother" (or member of the sub-species) who went on to rule once the (yellow-hair vs. black-hair) rivalry was settled by his rival's death.
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Romulus
Dec 31, 2008 13:30:24 GMT -5
Post by CongoJack on Dec 31, 2008 13:30:24 GMT -5
And I agree that for there to be a "Romulus" it makes sense that there's a "Remus." But since Romulus killed Remus I think that the use of the name here simply means that our "Romulus" is the victorious "brother" (or member of the sub-species) who went on to rule once the (yellow-hair vs. black-hair) rivalry was settled by his rival's death.
Stupidly enough, I hadn't even considered that. That makes perfect sense.
That sorta means Sabretooth was the Remus to Wolverine's Romulus. Wan't there some phrasing like "There were always two" in EVOLUTION? Are Daken and Wildchild the next Romulus and Remus?
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Romulus
Dec 31, 2008 17:35:57 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Dec 31, 2008 17:35:57 GMT -5
It seems to fit what we can see of the pattern. DAken & Kyle do seem to be antagonists and Logan & Creed surely were arch-enemies. Romulus seems to have some interest in pitting blondes against black-haired descendants in a "survival of the fittest" eugenics manipulation that goes back millenia. But there's still so much of Romulus' agenda unrevealed that we have to guess how it works. For instance, what if Creed and Logan represented the "Alpha" of each of the two "packs." If Daken is Logan's "Beta" then he must kill his father to become "Alpha" of the black-hair pack. Since Logan killed Creed the "Alpha" status of the blonde "pack" may be in dispute, or it may fall to Wildchild. And perhaps when one pack "Alpha" kills the other it entitles him (Wolverine) to a shot at Romulus? Maybe his whole agenda is to breed a worthy successor.
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Romulus
Dec 31, 2008 21:25:16 GMT -5
Post by darkdranzer88 on Dec 31, 2008 21:25:16 GMT -5
I had a theory from a while back that was if there was a Romulus, ergo there must be a Remus. My theory was that Wolverine himself was Remus, and Romulus was John Howlett from the ORIGIN story. Someone mentioned that this couldn't be right because Romulus was active years and years before Logan was born. There's always the possibilty that this was simply just part of Logan's dream sequence though. Other possibilties I've considered of who Romulus could be: Apocalypse, Dog Logan, or someone new. I always had a small theory that John (IF he's still alive) could be Romulus' desciple it does make some sense when you come to think of it, Romulus was around for nearly a whole millenia from what I read of the saga which would make him far too old to be Logan's brother (unless his mother or father or both had some kind of hardcore healing factor). Plus John would be given a role where he could keep an eye on his brother while forbidden to actually interact with him (the whole "Big Brother's Watching You" angle) his phantom-like abilities would make him appear somewhat incognito. That would explain how he kept an eye on him for so long without Logan's knowledge (although I think Xavier might have had a hand in this). Okay this theory may have more plot holes in it than a standard Michael Bay film and basing it on a comic book serie's role in canon is very questionable but it does make some sense when you think about it. I kinda see John betraying Romulus at some point 'cause what I can gather is that he is rather manipulative and resourceful in a way.
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Romulus
Jan 16, 2009 16:40:22 GMT -5
Post by Rose on Jan 16, 2009 16:40:22 GMT -5
So am I the only one that has a hard time swallowing the whole sub-species thing?
And if John really is still around, and was planning to betray Romulus, wouldn't he have done it by now?
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Romulus
Jan 20, 2009 18:10:11 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Jan 20, 2009 18:10:11 GMT -5
In my day mutants were rare and unique. Usually similar mutants were closely related within a generation. Then Austen creted the idea of whole related groups of mutants born independently but with a natural inclination to band together. By this time you couldn't swing a dead cat without hitting a mutant, so I guess you had to start classifying them somehow. And then Morrisson let slip that mutants would succeed humans in five generations. I'm willing to re-interpret the premise of the "Evolution" arc and accept that Wolverine, Sabretooth and others could all have a common ancestor (Romulus). What I reject completely is the stated theory in "Evolution" that Wolverine and the rest aren't even "human." They're supposedly another bipedal hominid species that evolved from canids along a parallel line with humans evolving from primates. And somehow they interbreed with primate-evolved humans? That's as likely as cross-breeding a beagle and a babboon. That's the dumbest thing since they wanted to reveal that Logan was really a mutant wolverine!
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Glutton/Weapon X-26
Junior Member
The 26th cloning attempt of Wolverine and the first completely successful, exact doppleganger.
Posts: 45
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Romulus
Aug 27, 2009 19:27:01 GMT -5
Post by Glutton/Weapon X-26 on Aug 27, 2009 19:27:01 GMT -5
Here's Rommie: ***SPOILER SPACE*** Looks like Wolverine did in Wolverine: The End. It looks more and more to me like I might be right about Romulus being John Howlett III. I mean, they both occupied the role of "behind the scenes manipulator" in Logan's life. Maybe this is their attempt to make White Ghost sort of canon. I'm hoping.
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Romulus
Aug 28, 2009 10:32:27 GMT -5
Post by evolution on Aug 28, 2009 10:32:27 GMT -5
Here is some more info on Romulus: marvel.wikia.com/wiki/RomulusNow he does look like Wolverine from Wolverine: The End, but I don't know if he is his brother John Howlett III. What if John Howlett III, took over the position of Romulus?
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Romulus
Aug 28, 2009 14:40:31 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Aug 28, 2009 14:40:31 GMT -5
First, Wolverine's brother was John Howlett, Jr. - not John Howlett III. John Howlett, Sr. was their father (or at least he was married to their mother). Old Man Howlett's first name was never revealed.
Second, Nick Fury revealed that Romulus has been manipulating the Hudon family for generations, going back at least to the Hudson Bay Company in the the 1900's. This includes Elizabeth Hudson, mother of John Howlett, Jr. and James Howlett by Thomas Logan, and her two brothers. It would have been impossible for John Jr. to have accomplished this from the womb, so this alone makes it impossible for John to be Romulus.
Third, Romulus apparently goes at least as far back as ancient Rome, and may be the pack leader shown in Wolverine's "collective unconscious" flashbacks in prehistoric times. John Howlett Jr. was born in 1885 according to the Tombstone in Origin.
If it turns out he's still alive, that'd be interesting. W:O #39 seems to have narrowed the field of competition to Logan and Daken and Logan doesn't want the crown. And while I gotta' admit Daken's kind'a growing on me in Dark Wolverine (and I blame Marjorie Liu for that), I still think that pulling his "Uncle John" out of far left field to mess up his plans at the last instant could be interesting.
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Glutton/Weapon X-26
Junior Member
The 26th cloning attempt of Wolverine and the first completely successful, exact doppleganger.
Posts: 45
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Romulus
Aug 28, 2009 17:46:51 GMT -5
Post by Glutton/Weapon X-26 on Aug 28, 2009 17:46:51 GMT -5
First, Wolverine's brother was John Howlett, Jr. - not John Howlett III. John Howlett, Sr. was their father (or at least he was married to their mother). Old Man Howlett's first name was never revealed. Second, Nick Fury revealed that Romulus has been manipulating the Hudon family for generations, going back at least to the Hudson Bay Company in the the 1900's. This includes Elizabeth Hudson, mother of John Howlett, Jr. and James Howlett by Thomas Logan, and her two brothers. It would have been impossible for John Jr. to have accomplished this from the womb, so this alone makes it impossible for John to be Romulus. Third, Romulus apparently goes at least as far back as ancient Rome, and may be the pack leader shown in Wolverine's "collective unconscious" flashbacks in prehistoric times. John Howlett Jr. was born in 1885 according to the Tombstone in Origin. Here's all three John Howletts: marvel.wikia.com/wiki/John_HowlettThe flashbacks were more symbolism than actual facts. They may have also been representative of past lives, but not one straight, long lifetime. Don't forget, it also showed Wolverine being in Ancient Rome, but that couldn't be his present lifetime if he was only born in the late 1800's.
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Romulus
Aug 29, 2009 19:59:40 GMT -5
Post by deepredtiger on Aug 29, 2009 19:59:40 GMT -5
It seems everyone in Logan's family related to James Howellet except his Father and James himself,,, as "bad" and self serving. His clan isn't one to brag about, they seem like over power control freaks. It's my way... or your dead type. I have a couple of future stories written inn the 90s some where about Logan's great great grand daughter and the last human, Logan was king, but didn't want it bla bla I log forgotten the details I just remember the grand Daughter had pulled her father's heart out for power and she fought Dr. Doom for a piece of Logan's claw long after his death.... something like that... she also raped some poor cat dude to have a baby,
Dhe had long black hair and a costume something like Sabertooth's Any one else remember this I think it was Galactic something... can't remember.
Anyway I'm thinking Logan aka James aka Wolverine is most likely the only one of his clan with any humanity and that seems to hang on a thread at times.
It's my guess this Dude doesn't like Logan being on the Good side so to speak and is trying everything he can to bring him back with him on his level where his true self belongs.
I also remember hearing Logan is not like the other human/mutants at all that he is something different than they are mutant yes but maybe not human.
So he has to fight this beast inside because he want to be more on his human side or human want to be side. which ever the case turns out to be.
Any one remember any of these half baked fragments I remember? fill in the blanks maybe?
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Romulus
Aug 29, 2009 20:20:48 GMT -5
Post by deepredtiger on Aug 29, 2009 20:20:48 GMT -5
Oh and I am pretty sure the idea as well as the name and the fact he has been around sen Rome came for this information:
Romulus (c. 771 BC[1]–c. 717 BC) and Remus (c. 771 BC–c. 753 BC) are the traditional founders of Rome, appearing in Roman mythology as the twin sons of the Vestal Virgin Rhea Silvia, fathered by the god of war, Mars. According to the tradition recorded as history by Plutarch and Livy, Romulus served as the first King of Rome. Romulus slew Remus with a shovel over a dispute about which one of the two brothers had the support of the local deities to rule the new city and give it his name. The name they gave the city was Rome. Supposedly, Romulus had stood on one hill and Remus another, and a circle of birds flew over Romulus, signifying that he should be king. After founding Rome, Romulus not only created the Roman Legions and the Roman Senate, but also added citizens to his new city by abducting the women of the neighboring Sabine tribes, which resulted in the mixture of the Sabines and Romans into one people. Romulus would become ancient Rome's greatest conqueror, adding large amounts of territory and people to the dominion of Rome. After his death, Romulus was deified as the god Quirinus, the divine persona of the Roman people. He now is regarded as a mythological figure, and it is supposed that his name is a back-formation from the name Rome. Some scholars, notably Andrea Carandini believe in the historicity of Romulus, in part because of the 1988 discovery of the Murus Romuli on the north slope of the Palatine Hill in Rome.[2] Romulus and Remus are pre-eminent among the famous feral children in mythology and fiction.
Which by the way seems to MAtch our Wolverine's personality to have a family history along these lines.
It also explains another old rumer I heard in the early 90s that Wolverine's mother may have been a Goddess, we now know she was not BUT who's to say what future stories will evolve using this myth as a base. I like the idea.
Like the idea of Daken's hair too
If you study a little about Mohawk you'll see that Daken's mohawk is NOT a punk Rock style at all it IS modeled after the Mohawk Indian warriors, which fits well too btw.
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Romulus
Aug 31, 2009 17:10:47 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Aug 31, 2009 17:10:47 GMT -5
The "wikia" has the same flaws as Wikipedia - it can be edited without confirmation of the facts. If anyone can point to the title, issue, page and panel were "Old Man" Howlett is referred to as "John" - or where "Soft John" is addressed as "John, Jr." - then I'll believe it.
Marvel's own directories aren't even the best source of accurate information. That's why the "official" Wolverine guide says he has a son named "Erista" even though no such character has ever been named in any Marvel comic story. Eric Moreels made a mistake and it's been repeated ever since without any attempt by Marvel to "fact check" his research.
Well, if you're referring to all the Wolverine/Sabretooth-related mutants then they aren't all bad - consider both X-23 and the Native. And among non-mutant relatives James MacDonald Hudson wasn't so bad. And John Howlett, Sr. isn't really part of the Wolverine lineage. The only positive influences in Wolverine's early life weren't blood relations - John Howlett, Rose, and Smitty. His real famliy - from Romulus through Thomas Logan, Elizabeth Hudson, "Dog" Logan, James, Jr., his Hudson uncles, Prof. Truett Hudson (a.k.a. Andre Thornton), Victor Hudson, all the way to Daken - all pretty much suck like you said! I
You're referring to Rancor, Wolverine's 30th century descendant and ruler of the mutants who had left earth and colonized another planet in Guardians of the Galaxy (from about 20 years ago). She fought Dr. Doom because by that time he had transferred his mind into an android body built around Wolverine's adamamtium skeleton. She wanted it as her birthright.
It's a Wakandan theory based on some archeological evidence, but it doesn't make real sense. Supposedly there was a humanoid race that evolved from canines at the same time man evolved from apes. They called them "lupus sapiens." The flaw in the theory is that is requires that two divergent species suddenly converged to the point that they could interbreed and produce fertile offspring. A more reasonable explanation is that "lupus sapiens" are the first expression of the X-factor in human genetic history, and comprise a mutant sub-species like the "angels" and "devils" of Chuck Austen's "Sins of the Fathers." In this they may also be connected to Maximus Lobo and his "Lupine" sub-species (also Austen's creation).
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