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Daken
Apr 4, 2007 10:22:35 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Apr 4, 2007 10:22:35 GMT -5
I just read a bit of information about Logan's son that may be the first really interesting fact we know about him: "Daken" is Japanese for "mongrel dog."
Could the "shadow figure" who has manipulated Logan most of his life - the man who raised his son - be in a position to appreciate the irony of having created a new "Dog" Logan who hates Wolverine as much as the first?
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Daken
Apr 9, 2007 18:56:32 GMT -5
Post by Mark Caringer on Apr 9, 2007 18:56:32 GMT -5
maybe its still grandpa howlett pulling the strings and just as he sent Dog long ago, now he has sent Daken ;D
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Daken
Apr 10, 2007 11:20:08 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Apr 10, 2007 11:20:08 GMT -5
Old Man Howlett looked to be on his deathbed in Wolverine: Origin, and he didn't seem to hate James at the end. It would be quite a twist if he was somehow still alive. Since he has no genetic relationship to James (and possibly John, Jr.) there's no way to infer that Wolverine got his mutant traits from the Howlett side of the family, so that wouldn't explain his survival.
Here's the evidence:
It's pretty clear that James (Logan) Howlett is the son of Elizabeth Howlett by Thomas Logan.
John Howlett, Jr. may also be the son of Thomas Logan. (Thomas' reference to John, Sr. as "Soft John" may refer to more than his treatment of his employees).
Both James and John, Jr. had claws, implying (not proving) the possiblity of an inheritted trait that neither of their parents displayed at any time. Neither Elizabeth nor Thomas had a healing factor (both died pretty easily).
Only James displayed enhanced senses (though it doesn't negate the possibility that John, Jr., Dog, or even Thomas or Elizabeth had them).
Dog Logan displayed no signs of claws and his scars contradict the possibility of any healing factor. Dog is not Elizabeth's son, so this lends favour to Elizabeth as being the possible carrier of the mutant gene, since both her sons had claws, but his son did not.
It is not impossible that Logan inherrited claws from Elizabeth (manifest also in John, Jr.), and enhanced senses from Thomas (not explicitly absent in Dog) - both traits being inherited from mutant parents, rather than a new mutation. It could be that the healing factor is James' only true mutation, with both his enhanced senses and claws being hereditary.
It's not conclusive, but that's as much as we know.
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Daken
Apr 10, 2007 20:34:46 GMT -5
Post by Mark Caringer on Apr 10, 2007 20:34:46 GMT -5
Evil grandpa Howlett was more of a joke, but you put together a great list of evidence that breaks down the facts, makes it simple for us to get to the same conclusion.
what about the argument that dog's healing factor would kick in and later heal those scars when he hits puberty or maybe the healing factor does not heal old scars since his body really does not see it as a damaged?
I think are trying to hard to make Dog sabretooth and that is why they have made that argument, what do yo think?
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Daken
Oct 30, 2007 8:21:34 GMT -5
Post by Rose on Oct 30, 2007 8:21:34 GMT -5
Well, if they made Dog sabertooth, well...isn't he dead?
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Daken
Oct 30, 2007 9:47:01 GMT -5
Post by CongoJack on Oct 30, 2007 9:47:01 GMT -5
what about the argument that dog's healing factor would kick in and later heal those scars when he hits puberty or maybe the healing factor does not heal old scars since his body really does not see it as a damaged? Can't say much for the second argument, but Dog is clearly past the age of puberty when he hunts Logan down towards the end of Origin.
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Daken
Oct 30, 2007 12:57:38 GMT -5
Post by Rose on Oct 30, 2007 12:57:38 GMT -5
Yes, but if something happened to his face later, it would have healed over the new wound, plus those old scars; therefore, he wouldn't have the scars anymore.
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Daken
Jul 11, 2008 14:25:50 GMT -5
Post by evolution on Jul 11, 2008 14:25:50 GMT -5
From what I know and read. Dog doesn't become Sabretooth. Sabretooth & Dog are two totally different persons.
In the Origin (series) (They just used Dog as a metaphor for the Sabretooth persona).
(James Howlett given the name by Rose; for his protection, and since Thomas Logan
(In order to protect James Howlett, Rose had given him the name: Logan.)
(They just used Thomas Logan as a metaphor for the Logan persona).
Anyways, while reading Wolverine Origins #26. Daken's name is father given to him was that of: Akihiro. However, his true father Wolverine (didn't name his yet). And it seems that year Daken was born was in 1946. Spoilers Warning.
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Daken
Jul 11, 2008 15:24:22 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Jul 11, 2008 15:24:22 GMT -5
I don't remember that being revealed in Wolverine: Origins #26 (I'll double check). In any case it would contradict Way's earlier statement that Wolverine spent 5 years at Jasmine Falls prior to Itzu's death since Logan was all over WWII between 1941 and 1946. It also stretches the limits of credibility to say that Bucky Barnes was already operating as the Winter Soldier (to kill Itzu) in 1946.
I should probably re-read everything Way wrote from Origins & Endings to the present because there seem to be a number inconsistencies and continiuty conflicts regarding Logan's whereabouts between the late 1930's and the early 1950's.
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Glutton/Weapon X-26
Junior Member
The 26th cloning attempt of Wolverine and the first completely successful, exact doppleganger.
Posts: 45
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Daken
Aug 7, 2008 19:26:13 GMT -5
Post by Glutton/Weapon X-26 on Aug 7, 2008 19:26:13 GMT -5
Genes can skip generations. Sabretooth and Mystique's son, Graydon Creed, didn't have any mutations.
I believe Thomas Logan and Elizabeth Howlett were both carriers of the X-Gene. Thus, mutations manifested in John Howlett III and James. Dog's mother wasn't a carrier. That could have made Dog Logan a simple carrier of the gene, as well. I theorize that Dog mated with, but never married, another X-Gene carrier, or full mutant, with the last name of Creed and is the father of Sabretooth. That would make Sabretooth Wolverine's half-nephew. Sabretooth's strongest and earliest memories involve being cruelly abused on numerous occasions by his father while tied up in his parents' basement. If Dog is Sabe's father, the reason behind the abuse could be because Sabe reminded Dog of James and his failure to kill him. So, he took his anger out on Victor. Eventually, Sabretooth would turn on his father and kill him, and continue to take his own anger out on Wolverine, because James is the reason Dog beat him.
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Daken
Aug 11, 2008 8:22:39 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Aug 11, 2008 8:22:39 GMT -5
Dog can't be Sabretooth's father for one reason: Sabretooth is older than Wolverine by over a generation. While Creed long held this to be true it became proven canon in Wolverine: Origins when an adult Victor Creed recruited former Pinkerton agent Silas Burr to serve Romulus - and this event took place before Wolverine was even born.
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Glutton/Weapon X-26
Junior Member
The 26th cloning attempt of Wolverine and the first completely successful, exact doppleganger.
Posts: 45
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Daken
Aug 13, 2008 18:42:21 GMT -5
Post by Glutton/Weapon X-26 on Aug 13, 2008 18:42:21 GMT -5
Dog can't be Sabretooth's father for one reason: Sabretooth is older than Wolverine by over a generation. While Creed long held this to be true it became proven canon in Wolverine: Origins when an adult Victor Creed recruited former Pinkerton agent Silas Burr to serve Romulus - and this event took place before Wolverine was even born. Which issue of Origins did this happen? I have every issue, thus far, and don't remember them implying that Sabes was older.
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Daken
Aug 26, 2008 21:50:34 GMT -5
Post by evolution on Aug 26, 2008 21:50:34 GMT -5
Back to a Daken question: How tall is he, and how much does he weight?
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Daken
Aug 29, 2008 9:44:03 GMT -5
Post by Megalictis on Aug 29, 2008 9:44:03 GMT -5
While there is no explicit statement, Wolverine: Origins #14 (or 15?) depicts Silas Burr as having been an adult and already a Pinkerton agent in sping of 1912, when he was convicted of 22 murders. Sabretooth, also clearly an adult, springs him from jail and takes him to Romulus. If the (still hypothetical) date of Logan's birth - Spring (but before April 19) 1897 - is correct, then Logan would be around 15 at that time (and still at the quarry in British Columbia).
According to the X-Men Messiah Complex Mutant Files, Daken is listed as 5'-9" tall and weighs 167 pounds, so six inches taller than his dad, but 126 pounds lighter (counting the adamantium).
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